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Is it a Gun or a Machine? |
Posted by inkypinky from IP: 58.104.1.239 on 05/24/06 WA Australia
What I would like to know is why does it stir so much political correctness and hostility amongst certain members of this forum when people refer to a tattoo machine as a "gun". |
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RE:Is it a Gun or a Machine? |
Posted by Krystof from IP: 141.154.190.200 on 05/24/06 Off the Map, Easthampton MA
Because it is what it is. Tattoo Machines are just that, Tattoo Machines. I don't even mind if they're referred to as Tattoo Devices or Tool of the trade, but it is most definitely not a gun. Guns are completely different. People use guns to shoot things with. Tattoo artists use guns to shoot people that keep calling their machines "guns"( j/k)
On the flip side, why do people not otherwise educated INSIST in them calling them guns? They don't look like guns, they don't operate like guns, they don't function as a gun. When a tattoo artist corrects someone by telling them that it is a machine, why do they question what it is called and not accept it? Do these same people see a car and call it a bus? Do they see a soda and call it a potato chip? And why does it become such a hard habit for some people to break? |
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RE:Is it a Gun or a Machine? |
Posted by kmesiano@yahoo.com from IP: 24.73.138.86 on 05/24/06
When i was first starting out the older guys would tell me that they didnt call them guns because "guns" is what needle junkies call thier "rigs"..........and they didnt want that association.
I dont know if that has evolved into something else...im sure if you ask 5 differnt artist you will get 5 different answers. |
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RE:Is it a Gun or a Machine? |
Posted by Ducky from IP: 151.196.117.254 on 05/24/06 The Stream
speaking for the younger generation, we grew up being told that's what they were, because we didn't grow up around people who know the correct word. Just like i know a wifebeater as that, a wifebeater (the shirts), but a lot of people find that term to be wrong, and prefer it to be caled a tank-top...but i learned that a tank-top is like, with the really thin straps...it just depends on when you grew up what you know it as.
Now, what you know it as, and what it is, are two different things. I mean, for some reason i say fire hydrant when refering to a fire truck, and those are two totally different things....i don't know why, and i know it's crazy, but i just do!
As far as the tattoo machine, i trust the guys on here, and am glad i found that out before i walked into a shop and made an ass of myself n.n |
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RE:Is it a Gun or a Machine? |
Posted by inkypinky from IP: 58.104.1.239 on 05/24/06 WA Australia
OK, good comments back so far but please can anyone explain why the term "tattoo gun" appears in the Oxford English Dictionary and the term "Tattoo Machine" does not.
A literal definition of a gun is a device that fires a projectile. It could be mis-interpreted that the needle of a tattoo machine is a projectile as it does indeed "project" from the device (at a rate that would make most automatic weapons owners etremely jealous)
Personally, although interested in the reasons, I find it a little pedantic that so many even care so much about what it is called.
If you understand that some people use the term gun and others machine then there is no inherent problem with that surely? |
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RE:Is it a Gun or a Machine? |
Posted by inkypinky from IP: 58.104.1.239 on 05/24/06 WA Australia
OK, good comments back so far but please can anyone explain why the term "tattoo gun" appears in the Oxford English Dictionary and the term "Tattoo Machine" does not.
A literal definition of a gun is a device that fires a projectile. It could be mis-interpreted that the needle of a tattoo machine is a projectile as it does indeed "project" from the device (at a rate that would make most automatic weapons owners etremely jealous)
Personally, although interested in the reasons, I find it a little pedantic that so many even care so much about what it is called.
If you understand that some people use the term gun and others machine then there is no inherent problem with that surely? |
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RE:Is it a Gun or a Machine? |
Posted by Ducky from IP: 151.196.117.254 on 05/24/06 The Stream
it may just be the fact that in today's society, a gun is not a posative thing, it's a negative thing...and, it is in fact a machine, not a gun...out of respect leave it what it is |
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RE:Is it a Gun or a Machine? |
Posted by inkypinky from IP: 58.104.1.239 on 05/24/06 WA Australia
Out of respect for what exactly? I asked a question that nobody has yet answered properly with logic and intellect. If this forum is genuinely here to answer questions like this then why would I "leave" the subject unanswered?
My point is this, mostly in Europe, tattoo "devices" are refered to as guns, where as in the USA they are refered to as machines. All I want to know is why the American artists get so offended by the use of the word gun. I agree that gun is probably not a positive word in American Society but does that mean the rest of the world should conform to one country's terminology? I think not. |
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RE:Is it a Gun or a Machine? |
Posted by gabe from IP: 71.123.65.229 on 05/24/06
We've talked about this in the past, check out some of the older threads. In short, in modern american society the uneducated public, scratchers, and hacks tend to refer to their tools as guns and professional custom tattoo artists *almost* always refer to their tools as machines. Professionals dont like to be associated with hacks and scratchers, rightfully so. |
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RE:Is it a Gun or a Machine? |
Posted by Krystof from IP: 71.233.140.22 on 05/24/06 Pisst Fish, West Springfield MA
When in Rome...... If you're over here, you can call it a machine, and if you're in Europe, feel free to call it a gun. No need to make waves, Aye Mate? |
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RE:Is it a Gun or a Machine? |
Posted by inkypinky from IP: 58.104.1.239 on 05/24/06 WA Australia
Two extremely valid points there gabe and krystof
Gabe: are we to assume from your post that you consider most european tattooists to be scratchers?
Krystof: Totally agree with the "when in Rome" sentiment but this is the internet and, as its name might imply, is an international network.
Look guys, I am not trying to stir things up, I was only curious as to why this division exists between terminology. I am English and I know that we have certain differences in our languages such as sidewalk/pavement and trashcan/dustbin but nobody gets bothered which one either of us use in those cases.
The moment somebody posts on this forum using the word gun, it seems that every artist on here immediately spits the dummy and berates this person as an inferior being.
Remember also that this forum is allegedly here to help people without professional knowledge of tattooing.
If you are going to bother responding to the "uneducated" would it not be simpler just to explain the differences between terminology in countries rather than making accusations of incompetence.
Or is it just that every artist here likes to have somebody to beat on and the newbies make easy targets? |
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RE:Is it a Gun or a Machine? |
Posted by Ducky from IP: 151.196.117.254 on 05/24/06 The Stream
nobody is asking you to conform...go ahead and call it a gun over there all you want...but if you are in america, just like you have to learn a language to communicate, you have to learn what is accepted and respsected. If i'm ever in Europe, i won't be talking about things with american terms and hope you understand, i'd learn the European term for it...same should ring true for you. |
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RE:Is it a Gun or a Machine? |
Posted by legacy from IP: 24.44.170.151 on 05/24/06 underground
I personally dont give a shit what you call it. I know what you are referring to either way it goes. I'll tell you this though it could be that people refer to a tattoo machine as a gun because it is known for "shootin" ink out of it.....As far as artists getting upset....I think honestly it comes down to feeling the need to correct someone because of their own insecurities.......Bottom line, what you call it has absolutely nothing to do with the tattoo process....Around here if someone drives a big car we call it a boat..now it's not literally a boat but it's understood... |
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RE:Is it a Gun or a Machine? |
Posted by gabe from IP: 71.123.65.229 on 05/24/06
Of course I dont think european tattoo artists are scratchers simply because they use the term gun. I dont think anyone is a scratcher simply because they use the term gun, nor is anyone a professional simply because they use the term machine. That doesnt negate the fact that in America scratchers often refer to their tools as guns and professionals almost always refer to their tools as machines. Really you can go through the archives and read through everyones thoughts that go round and round... I dont care what you call your tools, but when your in America and talk about using yer guns, professionals wont take you as seriously (though if you say it with a thick yurpean accent with a kick ass portfolio I doubt anyone would think twice). |
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RE:Is it a Gun or a Machine? |
Posted by inkypinky from IP: 58.104.1.239 on 05/24/06 WA Australia
Legacy: Finally somebody who has satisified my need for an answer. I am glad to end this thread without it having turned into the usual blood sodden battlefield that seems to be commonplace in this forum.
Thanks to all of you who replied |
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RE:Is it a Gun or a Machine? |
Posted by kmesiano@yahoo.com from IP: 24.73.138.86 on 05/24/06
How many full time tattoo artists even give a shit .....thats a better question. What a tired ass old topic...................call it what you like .. ........i call mine BOB. |
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RE:Is it a Gun or a Machine? |
Posted by legacy917@optonline.net from IP: 24.44.170.151 on 05/24/06 underground
you're welcome inky |
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RE:Is it a Gun or a Machine? |
Posted by taz@paintedangel.com from IP: 207.192.207.158 on 05/24/06 Painted Angel Studios
Ok INky...Heres my take on it...for many years the implement used in prison tattooing and by at home tattooers ( no judgements here ) commonly manufactured from a small rotary motor such as that from a casette player and a bic pen for a tube with a sharpened guitar string for a needle was called a "gun"...I am in no way demeaning that tool...I have seen some amazing works come from that type of thing...I think the term :machine" came about when the tattoo industry was making a full fleged effort at "legitimizing" the art of tattoo and bringin it out of the darkness so to speak...by using the term "machine" I think it was an effeort to separate the "pros" from the amateurs.In the past 20 years or so the term "machine" has become the industry norm for the tool we use to create skin art....Hope I have helped..TAz, Painted Angel |
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RE:Is it a Gun or a Machine? |
Posted by inkypinky from IP: 58.104.1.239 on 05/24/06 WA Australia
Ah Taz, glad you posted, I have seen many of your other comments on this forum and in your favour, you seem to respond less emotively and more informatively than most on tattooing subjects.
I assume from this style of writing that you have been in the business a while and know your stuff.
Interesting thoughts on the Prison "gun" and yes, some amazing work has been done with these pieces of equipment
As somebody here said, this probably is a tired old subject but i am grateful to all that posted new thoughts and will go away a happier and more informed person
Thanks :-) |
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RE:Is it a Gun or a Machine? |
Posted by ink_junkie from IP: 68.119.249.30 on 05/24/06 missouri
when you call my machine a gun it's the same as calling my mom a whore |
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