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Shader -VS- Liner ????

Posted by Dylan from IP: 143.238.155.61 on 09/02/08
Australia

Ok, now i know im a newbi to your site, and i know im gonna get the old, WTF are you asking us that stupid amature question for. But hey i'd rather look like a dumbass on the net than going into my local studio and asking...

But seriously how do you tell the difference between a shader and outliner when using a tattoo machine. now i think that it has to do with different amps/voltage etc. of the capacitor or coils.

But without knowing the maker of the equipment is there a certain colour rating or marking on the machines to be able to tell...

Or is it just the ampage/Mghz that the artist's uses on the actually power supply?

AND NO IM NOT A SCRATCHER that gives my mates HIV, STAFF etc..... I'd tell them to get a f__king job, and pay a professional who has spent years of practice learning their profession.

Just wondering how the f__k you guys tell. ive got about 20tats head to toe, and never really paid attention to the details until recently. I mean it would be good to understand what/how my artist's are doing what they do best...


(lol at some of the stupid questions you guys have to put up with!! like the e-bay tattoo gun!!!! wtf is a tattoo gun?)


BY THE WAY.... ROCKIN SITE.....wish i'd have found it ealier.

Cheers from Australia



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RE:Shader -VS- Liner ????

Posted by nope@nope.com from IP: 71.212.82.74 on 09/04/08

why the fuck is this even talked about in the open?


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RE:Shader -VS- Liner ????

Posted by Fallen King Irons - fkirons.com from IP: 65.10.154.205 on 09/04/08
Miami Beach

The worst part is how misleading all this crap talk is.
Now I'm going to barf. %$#@&*$!!@


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RE:Shader -VS- Liner ????

Posted by alpha AND omega!! (don't forget it) from IP: 71.212.82.74 on 09/04/08

gabe... wtf?


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RE:Shader -VS- Liner ????

Posted by gabe from IP: 68.114.84.56 on 09/05/08
TattooNOW/Off the Map/Tattoo Gathering

Hey, Im pretty swamped with the convention and a zillion websites and just poped into this thread. I'll take it down tomorrow.

Chit chatting about how to tattoo in an open anonymous public forum is not responsible. Just because there are great tattoos in the gallery does NOT mean those artists will answer questions here, they wont. Its usually the least experianced people who have time and desire to answer technical questions to random people. I would not take any of their advice, though it may be correct in a few cases. I would get tattooed by someone freaking awesome, show them your art, and then ask their advice.

this is not about greed or keeping out the competition, its about protecting the publics skin from unnecessary bad tattoos. Any artists who is good enough to tattoo will learn how to tattoo by getting tattooed by the best artists and asking them their advice. You need to get your advice from experts, not random people on the internet. Good artists want more good tattooers, they do not want any more bad ones, there are too many already for christs sake


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RE:Shader -VS- Liner ????

Posted by Dylan from IP: 121.221.140.61 on 09/06/08
Australia

Sorry guys, i guess this is just one of those newbie questions....

from someone who has paid about $4000.00-$5000.00 in total in tattoo workon my body,

I would just like bit more understanding on how and why we have to pay such a high price on good, quality artist these days...

I guess i would rather look like a "newbie dick" and know to some extent, the answer to these questions, than pay for something i really dont understand.....

than just for the "look" and"enjoyment" of having tattoos....

Its sites like these that make the "every day" person who loves tattoos a blessing. i can find out why i am paying so much for what i would have originally thought was a simple and easy process

But its starting to make sense about the amount of time and money spent on each individual tattoo shop to actually warrant charing the sort of prices they do now-days...

once again sorry and i wil keep the questions to a simple form....

thankyuo gabe,......


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RE:Shader -VS- Liner ????

Posted by gabe from IP: 141.154.190.200 on 09/06/08
TattooNOW offices @ Off the Map Tattoo

There is virtually no reason the public needs to understand the difference between shaders and liners. If you have that many tattoos and already spent that much, I assume you will keep getting tattooed and you should direct those questions to the artist tattooing you. If they think your worth tattooing the public's skin, then they will generally tell you the answers your looking for, or how to find them... You can seriously fuck someone up tattooing if you dont have the proper guidance. And its near impossible to get proper guidence on a public open anonymous forum...


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RE:Shader -VS- Liner ????

Posted by fakeone1@yahoo.com from IP: 72.218.163.82 on 03/24/09

its all bull shit. stop paying so much for your tattoos. there banking on your ass. they dont know about shaders and liners. there just talking shit so they can charge more


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RE:Shader -VS- Liner ????

Posted by thunderdodge from IP: 172.191.197.156 on 03/25/09
etown ab.ca

to be honest there is no real difference in them a shader runs bigger coils but on the other hand i use a 11 wrap machine for both lining & shading and i use a 8 wrap for both lining & shading but i stick to the 11 for color just cause its my fave machine


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RE:Shader -VS- Liner ????

Posted by inkjunkeez22@yahoo.com from IP: 71.166.115.250 on 03/25/09

shader/liner shader front spring is longer hangs over the armature bar more a liners front spring is shorter run shader with less voltage the gap between the contact screw and the front spring should be the thickness of a dime for a liner and a nickel for a shader...hope this helps..


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RE:Shader -VS- Liner ????

Posted by inkjunkeez22@yahoo.com from IP: 71.166.115.250 on 03/25/09

shader/liner shader front spring is longer hangs over the armature bar more a liners front spring is shorter run shader with less voltage the gap between the contact screw and the front spring should be the thickness of a dime for a liner and a nickel for a shader...hope this helps..


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RE:Shader -VS- Liner ????

Posted by ratatat from IP: 64.56.4.166 on 08/17/09
Baton Rouge

A Shader is for shading. A Liner is for lining. That would be the main difference. If youre wondering which of the two you should get to bypass buying both since its youre first machine and you cant afford both, which I suspect is the real motive here then just take a wild guess between the two because personally I've seen lots of work in the last 18 years done with "versatile" machines. Yes you should use both shader and liner but some artists do not. It just depends on the artists preference and the work thats being done. Everyones tattoo is different, the skin location, the artwork, the ink, the color, customers attitude, my attitude, lighting, co-workers, customers cell-phone going off in the middle of tattoo and the dumbfuck answering it "mid-tattoo", thier liltte brothers cheesy artwork that they bring in, power settings, wife, rent, needle size. There is no way to give a good answer because there are too many variables that are being used. There are adjustments on the machine itself and some are easier to adjust between both shader and liner. It depends on the setup 10 wrap, 8 wrap coils, Capacitor size & Power setttings. "Personally" I do have two "dual purpose" machines and they are both supposed to be "shaders" but they hit Really Hard and put out some dam good lines. With Blackwork and Blackwork ONLY. I get better results using either of these two machines instead of a shader and liner combo. I will not disclose the information on those becuase yo azz needs to go sit down somewhere and read.


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RE:Shader -VS- Liner ????

Posted by Ren from IP: 69.242.238.18 on 05/07/10
tucson

quite honestly, these responses seem a little bigoted, to the top, if some one is asking questions its because they want to learn, just as I would. The purpose of a forum is to discuss and get opinions, to see what is out there, how other people work. Maybe a scratcher has better technique because they have been doing it for years, just because an artist works in a shop DOES NOT mean they are any good. And any expert artist on here not willing to share information, is causing a lot of bad work to continue being done, because the scratcher is still going to tattoo. Or perhaps they are the new shop expert but everyone else they work with sucks just as bad, and now they just charge out the A** for bad tattoos. Why? Because they couldn't get any advice anywhere! techniques and procedures SHOULD be talked about in the open. I can spot the difference between a liner and a shader, mostly by the slant of the contact screw, liners being a little more vertical, shaders more horizontal. Now for what that does for the operation of the machine, no clue, and I have a feeling nobody is going to get the answer here because, the ones who would know seem to be too stuck up and self important to share what would help those starting to tattoo, or those who cant figure out how to get even better.


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RE:Shader -VS- Liner ????

Posted by butter from IP: 75.90.232.128 on 05/07/10
tub

I agree, this site is just for tattooers to suck each other off. The dif in the slants of the liner and shader, is the liner has to run faster and hit harder, and the shader hits slower so as to pack in the color. Tattooist are not stopping scratchers, nor doing anything to curtail home tattooing. The not giving of info is only keeping them bad, and not stopping them. I have meet several very good tattooist, eho have admitted they never did an apprenticeship. They learned through trial and error, until they got better. Practice makes perfect, something doesnt work, try something else. A scratcher can buy any of the same equipment a pro can get. The same machines, the same ink, the same needles. I read on here before that someone said scratcher would have a hard time getting eternal ink. That is bs. There are several sites that sell to everyone, and they too carry eternal. I also say you could order direct from eternal, just lie. I know ppl get tired of paying big bucks for tattoos. On a big piece, you expect to pay a little more, but our shops have a min. tattoo price. So for the person wanting a small heart, clover, or some other miniscule tattoo, has to pay the shop min, which may be anywhere from 50$ to 1500$.


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RE:Shader -VS- Liner ????

Posted by btthornbro from IP: 97.235.62.64 on 07/31/10
1621stanley rd greensboro nc 27407

Never new tattoo artists were such faggots. I might burn mine off.


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RE:Shader -VS- Liner ????

Posted by P.O'd_newbie from IP: 167.102.156.193 on 10/09/10
MD

I just have to say, I feel that most of you here are a bunch of assholes (People that replied to this post at least). I understand that you don't want people messing up someones skin because they don't know how to tattoo, and that tatooing is an art that is to be taught by an awsome tattooist, but getting advice is how people learn to tattoo. I'm sure you all were not born with the "god given" ability to tattoo well. I myself am just learning and rather than giving me advice, my artist pretty much told me not to bother. How the FUCK can someone learn to tattoo properly if they are not properly shown becuase they aren't even given a chance? Can someone explain that to me so that when I read shit like the responses to that guys question, I understand the reasoning instead of getting pissed off? Please reply to my e-mail so I can better understand the way you expierience artists think.


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RE:Shader -VS- Liner ????

Posted by P.O'd_newbie from IP: 167.102.156.193 on 10/09/10
MD

I just have to say, I feel that most of you here are a bunch of assholes (People that replied to this post at least). I understand that you don't want people messing up someones skin because they don't know how to tattoo, and that tatooing is an art that is to be taught by an awsome tattooist, but getting advice is how people learn to tattoo. I'm sure you all were not born with the "god given" ability to tattoo well. I myself am just learning and rather than giving me advice, my artist pretty much told me not to bother. How the FUCK can someone learn to tattoo properly if they are not properly shown becuase they aren't even given a chance? Can someone explain that to me so that when I read shit like the responses to that guys question, I understand the reasoning instead of getting pissed off? Please reply to my e-mail so I can better understand the way you expierience artists think.


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RE:Shader -VS- Liner ????

Posted by Blhh&tat2@graffiti.net from IP: 75.140.114.125 on 01/22/11
California, CA

I never find lack of amusement in how butt hurt the "tattoo experts" get when somebody asks any type of questions. Here's a few facts about tattooing and these types of question forums. If someone want to tattoo, and they have willing participants, they are goin to do it. Decades of homemade machines, and piles of mass produced Chinese crap sold on eBay make it possible. So I don't have a problem shooting a fact or two towards someone so they just give a bad tattoo and don't seriousally injure someone. As for the "elitists", your anger towards amatures only show your lack of confidence in your craft shows when you take time to abuse people over a Internet forum. I know 1000's of professional, studio pros and 1000's more amatures and scratchers. None effect my business, I know when people come to my studio's it's because they want MY ink, or one of MY artists. No other artists, pro or NOT, can effect my business ( I made close to 6 digits last years alone between the 3 studios in prominent cities, and have personally trained 4 artists who have won awards and been featured in books and magazines.) So in summary, stop being a dick to amatures, we all started somewhere, and truth be told, I never apprenticed under anyone, not never, not once. I listened learned practiced a shitload and never gave up. Now, I am a few month from celebrating 22 years in this business.


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RE:Shader -VS- Liner ????

Posted by Curious from IP: 71.234.149.19 on 06/10/11
CT

Wow. How obnoxious. You cant just answer the guy?? There's clearly a difference. He wants to know what it is. So do I, that's why I came here. I dont happen to BE at a tat shop right now, so theres no artist to ask. Im at work, and was just wondering about this so I figured I'd look it up. I dont get why it has to be such drama over such a simple question.


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RE:Shader -VS- Liner ????

Posted by Curious from IP: 71.234.149.19 on 06/10/11
CT

Wow. How obnoxious. You cant just answer the guy?? There's clearly a difference. He wants to know what it is. So do I, that's why I came here. I dont happen to BE at a tat shop right now, so theres no artist to ask. Im at work, and was just wondering about this so I figured I'd look it up. I dont get why it has to be such drama over such a simple question.


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RE:Shader -VS- Liner ????

Posted by Curious from IP: 71.234.149.19 on 06/10/11
CT

Wow. How obnoxious. You cant just answer the guy?? There's clearly a difference. He wants to know what it is. So do I, that's why I came here. I dont happen to BE at a tat shop right now, so theres no artist to ask. Im at work, and was just wondering about this so I figured I'd look it up. I dont get why it has to be such drama over such a simple question.


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RE:Shader -VS- Liner ????

Posted by doc fresh from IP: 88.107.38.245 on 06/23/14
uk

man i tottally agree if people really care about so called scratcher ruining people skin then you would give them some good advise to help the in the jouney to becoming a tattooist or at least a safe scratcher at least mabee one day that so called scratcher could be tattooing better that any of you ten years down the line. 50%of good tattooists have got thier heads so stuck up there own asses its unbeleivalbe and by not answering questions and sharing good knowlege you are compleatly contridicting your selves causing more harm than positivity within the tattooing community selfesh bas!@£ds. and if that blokes looking for cheap tattoos you could proberly find an apprentice or scratcher with a good practicing portfolio and get tats much cheaper than going to an expensive tracer that has a lisence to have his head stuck up his pompus ass. peace and positivity people , safe as f@ck


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RE:Shader -VS- Liner ????

Posted by doc fresh from IP: 88.107.38.245 on 06/23/14
uk

man i tottally agree if people really care about so called scratcher ruining people skin then you would give them some good advise to help the in the jouney to becoming a tattooist or at least a safe scratcher at least mabee one day that so called scratcher could be tattooing better that any of you ten years down the line. 50%of good tattooists have got thier heads so stuck up there own asses its unbeleivalbe and by not answering questions and sharing good knowlege you are compleatly contridicting your selves causing more harm than positivity within the tattooing community selfesh bas!@£ds. and if that blokes looking for cheap tattoos you could proberly find an apprentice or scratcher with a good practicing portfolio and get tats much cheaper than going to an expensive tracer that has a lisence to have his head stuck up his pompus ass. peace and positivity people , safe as f@ck


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RE:Shader -VS- Liner ????

Posted by scratcher from IP: 96.251.127.122 on 08/16/14
CA USA

wow if I only had the time id summons up Stone Cold E T to come kick some of you sob's ass! Who the fuck creates a forum to hear a bunch of so called artist cry like fucken newborns you should be ashamed of yourselves. I have been to several shops and gotten work at a few and have just observed in others but let me tell you whiny little bitches some of the best work ive seen is from a Mexican homie that used a fucken Walkman motor and guitar string. Makes some of you so called artist work look like trash. This fool gets down and still does his work old school style straight up fuckers!!!!!!


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